Welcome to Jesus Saves? Online

Session 4: The Feminist, Ecological, and Modern Lutheran Theories

Presentation with written notes


Question Week 4:

Please respond to the following question after you have studied the materials for session four.
 
After studying all of these theories of salvation, what new insights do you have into what you believe about salvation? 



Name:
Email:
Your Story:


6/6/2008
Ann Wolff
wolff701@msn.com
I just came back to this after a week of thinking, too. Many things seem to be exactly what one would never expect and it really gets everyone's attention: birth in a stable, most parables, i.e. prodigal son, Zaccheus, beatitudes, crucifixion. So much to comprehend that it's incomprehensible and that's okay with me.

6/5/2008
Walt Ogburn
waltogburn@yahoo.com
After a week of vacation and the start of a very busy week, I decided to go back and review the presentation. My thoughts haven't changed much. I look at Jesus' death as a necessary step to get to his resurrection. In my view, the resurrection is the point not his death. I can accept that people killed Jesus. I can also accept that there were other approaches God could have used to save us. I also believe God felt the pain of Jesus' suffering and death just a human parent feels the pain when their child is hurting. Because Jesus' death and resurrection was foretold in the Old Testament, I believe it was part of God's master plan. He certainly could have stopped it, but he chose not to. I come back to my core (Lutheran?) belief that the resurrection of Jesus is the ultimate sign that God is all powerful. He can overcome death with life. I know that those who believe in God's miraculous victory have already been granted eternal life (salvation). I struggle with what happens to non-believers. I also struggle with what eternal life is or means. I guess that's why I continue to explore my faith and the theology of my church.

5/31/2008
Ann
wolff701@msn.com
I just wrote a long entry that disappeared, so I'll try again. It appears that I didn't hit "add entry" but if both do appear, sorry. No, I never knew that there were so many interpretations of how Jesus saves. I have often had the same thoughts as the Modern Lutheran theories, believing that God doesn't "need" anything from us. My best understanding of God is a perfect parent and in that regard, God does not require us to ask for forgiveness or come to God first or anything else. As a perfect parent, God would always be there and might sometimes intervene without us knowing. In the end, God would gather up all children unconditionally, no matter where they were in their thoughts and actions. I never really articulated the femininst theory to myself, but now that I have heard it, it also makes a lot of sense. I don't really like the word "feminist" theory because it carries too much of a secular label. I do, however, resonate with that philosophy. Where does this lead in my Christian and my Lutheran life. I don't know. It makes me more intolerant of people who use a narrow interpretation to be judgmental. That's not good because intolerant is what I like to think I am not. Most Christians I have heard in conversation seem to hold onto John 3:16 and interpret it that whoever believes will have eternal life and therefore whoever does not believe will be condemned. I've always been upset about that because if God SO loved the world, there would not be any exclusions or conditions. Thank you Siri for this profound study. I know you have many new classes to teach, but I think it's really important to keep giving the basic ones you have started over and over. We need to open our minds and our hearts. I think everyone should be invited to retake the classes because there is so much information to digest and to share with each other, that each time, the class would be different. I would love to see you advertise this and previous classes with some key questions that may have been tugging at people's hearts for years and may have kept them away from church. I would love to see these classes grow to the proportions of BSF, which I have always avoided because I have heard that it is lecture, discussion, then people are given "the right answers." I close with gratitude to God for your leadership and your scholarship, Siri. Thank you for spreading the Good News.

5/20/2008
Walt
waltogburn@yahoo.com
I re-read the presentation this morning. I am leaving Friday morning for vacation with limited computer access so I wanted to capture my thoughts before I leave. As I thought again about the feminist theory I have a slightly different thought. One of my core beliefs is that God can use any event to advance his purpose and to demonstrate is love and power, if we are paying attention. Even if God did not intend for Jesus to suffer and die, the message is God's love can transcend violence and death and lead to a more perfect life after death. Jesus rose in a form that was more God-like and less man-like thus more perfect. We should not condone violence or accept it as part of God's plan for us. God wouldn't plan to hurt his human children even though he knows we all will be hurt. God's plan rather is to give us the power to rise above the hurt, and the desire to "make it go away" both for ourselves and for others. Yes, violence exists, but God has shown us how to deal with violence with love. I still believe Jesus' key message was to keep us looking forward to what God has planned for us and to recognize that God's plan involves us loving our self and others everyday. I feel God and Jesus both knew exactly what was going to happen to Jesus on earth. They also knew exactly what would come next. Only Jesus (God) could be expected to bear the suffering he did without judgement or the desire to strike back. That doesn't mean we should condone violence and consider it "our burden to carry" but rather seek to find ways to prevent violence by sharing the message of hope to replace the message of despair held by so many.

5/15/2008
Siri
serickson@trinitylc.org
Walt, Great processing! Many have struggled with the feminist view for many of the reasons you suggest. Yet, Lutheran theologian Gerhard Forde, while taking a different approach, does affirm many of the feminist critiques. I am interested to hear how your thoughts evolve as you wrestle with some of these ideas.

5/15/2008
Walt
waltogburn@yahoo.com
This will take me a while to sort through. I found myself resisting the message of the feminist view, primarily because the Old Testament and Jesus himself had phrophesied about his death and resurection. If that wasn' God's intention why was it the subject of the phrophets and why did Jesus know what was ahead of him. My view of God has always supported my philosophy that God could have stopped or prevented Jesus violent death but he chose not to. This means he saw a way to use the event to help carry is message or his plan to the world. I am still processing the concept that our acceptance of Jesus' violent death makes violence acceptable in our society. I'll have to get back to you once I figure out how that fits in my theology and philosophy. Now I remember why I didn't like philosophy in college -- there is no right or wrong answer. I guess I'm destined for a science based world where there are facts. However, now that I typed that, I'm wondering if there really are any facts. Great -- now I have to start thinking about work and I'm really confused.

Week 3 Study Questions and Discussion

Week 2 Study Questions and Discussion

Week 1 Study Questions and Discussion

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